[Hardy-l] Hardy and homosexuality

Tony Fincham wessex.heights at virgin.net
Wed May 7 03:27:14 PDT 2008


Dear Jane,

Many thanks for your email - am printing off a copy of your article now - it 
looks as if it will be most helpful to me.

I've replied to Ronald Knight - his was a somewhat predictable response - 
how can we do more than speculate about
the sexuality of long dead literary figures? - even Proust may not have been 
as camp as he would have us believe - but
Lawrence does seem to have some very strong advocates who cannot cope with 
his probable sexual orientation, which
psychologically fits neatly with his character.

I feel bound (somewhat ridiculously) to apologise for my topic, which was 
foisted on me by my supervisor.
When I started I knew a lot about Hardy, a little about Beckett - my 
knowledge of Proust was confined to
Hardy's comments in 'The Life' & Danny Karlin's THS London lecture!

With best wishes & many thanks,

Tony.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jane E Thomas" <J.E.Thomas at hull.ac.uk>
To: <hardy-l at coyote.csusm.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:52 AM
Subject: [Hardy-l] Hardy and homosexuality


While I agree with Ronald Knight that it is presumptuous, somewhat 
impertinent and irrelevant to speculate on the author's sexuality, his 
novels and poetry open up interesting avenues regarding 'same-sex' desire 
and I think Hardy was sympathetic to the real concerns and anxieties of 
homosexuals post the Labouchere Amendment to the Criminal Law Amendment Act 
that criminalised homosexuality in public and in private. Hardy was 
certainly in sympathetic correspondence with John Addington Symonds, Roden 
Noel, knew Oscar Wilde and had read Havelock Ellis (and Symonds) on 
homosexuality. He was also firm friends with Edmund Gosse who had 
speculated, anxiously, on the nature of his own affectionate regard for the 
sculptor Hamo Thorneycroft. I have recently published an article in 
Literature and History on this which has references that might be of use to 
you Tony:Thomas, Jane (2007), 'Thomas Hardy, Jude the Obscure and "Comradely 
Love"', Literature and History, 16 (2), pp. 1-15.

Let me know if you can't get hold of it and I'll email a copy to you. 
Richard Dellamora is interesting on Hardy and homosexuality as is Alan 
Sinfield (refs in article).

ps; it's useful to note perhaps that speakers and addressees are not always 
gendered within the poem which widens the field of meaning somewhat.

Best wishes
Jane

Dr J.E.Thomas
Senior Lecturer
Department of English
University of Hull
East Yorkshire
HU6 7RX

e-mail: j.e.thomas at hull.ac.uk

________________________________

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Subject: Hardy-l Digest, Vol 32, Issue 3



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Today's Topics:

   1. Homosexy Hardy (Tony Fincham)
   2. Hardy & T.E.Lawrence (RONALD KNIGHT)
   3. Re: Homosexy Hardy (Eric Christen)
   4. Re: Hardy & T.E.Lawrence (Tony Fincham)
   5. Re: Homosexy Hardy (Tony Fincham)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 08:10:52 +0100
From: "Tony Fincham" <wessex.heights at virgin.net>
Subject: [Hardy-l] Homosexy Hardy
To: "THA Talk" <hardy-l at coyote.csusm.edu>
Message-ID: <000801c8b011$7cc3f9d0$0200a8c0 at useraba4f6c764>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone can help me.

I am researching into "Love" as portrayed by Hardy, Proust & Samuel Beckett 
using it as an avenue to explore
the evident links between Hardy's "Tentative Philosophy" and Beckett's 
wombtomb nihilism.
This is a post-PhD MA, under the auspices of the Dept of CLS at the Unikent, 
Canterbury (England).

One of the difficulties I am facing is that Love in Proust is largely - if 
not exclusively - homosexual;
love in Beckett is covertly - if not overtly - homosexual : I cannot use the 
word "gay" for Samland.

Hardy shares certain personal characteristics with Beckett & other known 
homosexuals with whom
Tom associated, such as T E Lawrence - particularly the dislike being being 
touched - the noli me
tangere. None of the 3 writers I am studying managed to father a child.

I am aware of the oft-quoted gay scenes in Hardy - the two Cythereas, 
Henchard & Farfrae etc - &
Hardy's relationship with Horace Moule but I am wondering if anyone else has 
a view on this aspect
of Hardy's life - or knows of any published articles?

Best wishes,

Tony Fincham.
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 08:45:35 +0100 (BST)
From: RONALD KNIGHT <ronald950 at btinternet.com>
Subject: [Hardy-l] Hardy & T.E.Lawrence
To: hardy-l at coyote.csusm.edu
Message-ID: <676986.85867.qm at web86410.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Here we go again!
  "...other known homosexuals with whom Tom associated, such as 
T.E.Lawrence". What proven evidence has Fincham for labelling Lawrence as 
such? None of the many who knew him closely have ever made that accusation. 
Only those who did not know him, particularly those who wished to denigrate 
him.
  Resulting from his harrowing WW1 experiences he may be termed somewhat 
masochistic or something similar, but that does not mean homosexual.
  Fincham's thesis seems to have got a "fail" before he has even got 
started.
  Ronald Knight
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 10:06:02 +0200
From: Eric Christen <ericjchristen at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: [Hardy-l] Homosexy Hardy
To: <hardy-l at coyote.csusm.edu>
Message-ID: <C4472F8A.2D2F%ericjchristen at bluewin.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>
> One of the difficulties I am facing is that Love in Proust is largely - if 
> not
> exclusively - homosexual;
> love in Beckett is covertly - if not overtly - homosexual : I cannot use 
> the
> word "gay" for Samland.
>
    Tony, is your research mainly about Hardy the man or about characters
and situations in his literary works? In either case I cannot help you, but
I used to be familiar with Proust: we know that he was a homosexual, but in
his main work, LA RECHERCHE, OEUn amour de Swann¹ , OEA l¹ombre des jeunes
filles en fleurs¹, OELa disparue¹ or OELa prisonnière¹ - not to mention JEAN
SANTEUIL and other works, Love is heterosexual love. I wonder if  you have
come across a book on Proust written in French and possibly in English by a
friend of mine, Edward Bizub (I forget the title). Forgive me for the titles
in French.
    Anyway, good luck with your extra-ordinary research: I am looking
forward to hearing and reading more about it.
    Eric


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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:34:48 +0100
From: "Tony Fincham" <wessex.heights at virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [Hardy-l] Hardy & T.E.Lawrence
To: <hardy-l at coyote.csusm.edu>
Message-ID: <001d01c8b01d$38facd80$0200a8c0 at useraba4f6c764>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Thank you for the somewhat predictably response - human sexuality is 
complex - labels simplify but
keep us away from the truth - I was not in any way trying to denigrate 
Lawrence by suggesting that he
preferred men to women for sex - but you have inadvertently focussed on the 
point I was trying to raise:
because most of Hardy's love poetry is directed towards women, he is 
labelled as "heterosexual" - I
was trying to scratch beneath the surface of this presumption!

Tony Fincham.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: RONALD KNIGHT
  To: hardy-l at coyote.csusm.edu
  Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:45 AM
  Subject: [Hardy-l] Hardy & T.E.Lawrence


  Here we go again!
  "...other known homosexuals with whom Tom associated, such as 
T.E.Lawrence". What proven evidence has Fincham for labelling Lawrence as 
such? None of the many who knew him closely have ever made that accusation. 
Only those who did not know him, particularly those who wished to denigrate 
him.
  Resulting from his harrowing WW1 experiences he may be termed somewhat 
masochistic or something similar, but that does not mean homosexual.
  Fincham's thesis seems to have got a "fail" before he has even got 
started.
  Ronald Knight


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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:39:35 +0100
From: "Tony Fincham" <wessex.heights at virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [Hardy-l] Homosexy Hardy
To: <hardy-l at coyote.csusm.edu>
Message-ID: <002701c8b01d$e229f5c0$0200a8c0 at useraba4f6c764>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Re: [Hardy-l] Homosexy HardyDear Eric,

Thank - I am writing about Hardy, Proust & Beckett - I have plenty to go 
with Proust  - A la recherche sharing with that
other great tomb The Holy Bible, the capacity to give the seeker whatever he 
wishes to find within its pages.
Plus adequate material on Beckett.

It is really Hardy - both man & literary creations - about which I was 
appealing for opinions.

Thanks for your reply & look forward to meeting you again in Dorchester in 
JUly.

Tony.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Eric Christen
  To: hardy-l at coyote.csusm.edu
  Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 9:06 AM
  Subject: Re: [Hardy-l] Homosexy Hardy



    One of the difficulties I am facing is that Love in Proust is largely - 
if not exclusively - homosexual;
    love in Beckett is covertly - if not overtly - homosexual : I cannot use 
the word "gay" for Samland.


     Tony, is your research mainly about Hardy the man or about characters 
and situations in his literary works? In either case I cannot help you, but 
I used to be familiar with Proust: we know that he was a homosexual, but in 
his main work, LA RECHERCHE, 'Un amour de Swann' , 'A l'ombre des jeunes 
filles en fleurs', 'La disparue' or 'La prisonnière' - not to mention JEAN 
SANTEUIL and other works, Love is heterosexual love. I wonder if  you have 
come across a book on Proust written in French and possibly in English by a 
friend of mine, Edward Bizub (I forget the title). Forgive me for the titles 
in French.
      Anyway, good luck with your extra-ordinary research: I am looking 
forward to hearing and reading more about it.
      Eric




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